side by side // the canon 1d MKIV, MKII, and 7d
ever since the MKII revolution within our industry, we have been patiently awaiting what canon would follow up with. all of our traditional 3ccd video cameras were replaced with these DSLRs and a pile of lenses. not only did our imagery improve tenfold as we transitioned over, but our understanding and appreciation of optics did as well.
when the 7d was launched, with it’s improved auto focus, aps-c sized sensor, and 24P/60P options (all in a sub $2000 price point) we brought in six of those and they became our workhorse. some felt the crop was a drawback – we loved the opportunity to get in tighter with less light loss (as compared to a longer lens on the MKII). the aesthetic of 24P was certainly not easy for us to give up, and that alone was enough reason for us to bring in the 7d.
now it’s time for the 1d MKIV to launch and our first question, of course, was how will it stack up against the others?
mark was kind enough to put in some extra hours around our rather grueling holiday schedule and put together this comparison of the three different cameras. we looked at high iso performance, the crop factor, and rolling shutter.
practically speaking, the rolling shutter felt significantly reduced on the MKIV. if you pair that with the increased weight and the different form factor that the integrated battery grip provides, it almost feels like you could shoot handheld. it has never been our style to shoot completely hand held (we often use a monopod or shoulder rig) but for those who do shoot that way, it feels much more natural with this camera. being a pro series camera, it certainly has a super solid feel to it. as we all gave it a test, the consensus seemed to be that the form factor of the MKIV was very conducive to video.
being a pro series body means you also get features like super fast auto focus, many more AF points (45 points), and it can shoot up to 10 photos per second in burst mode. while that may not interest those out there who are looking mainly to this camera for video, it certainly piqued my interest as a way of incorporating a time lapse of stills with other video segments.
the camera is is also ‘weather resistant’ so you can get away with much more in tough outdoor conditions. with our shooting style, that certainly means a lot.
the MKIV certainly triumphed in low light, and it is crazy what these cameras are able to do, but in comparison to the others it wasn’t as striking of a difference as i was expecting from reading vincent laforet’s blog. at higher iso settings the MKIV certainly looks cleaner, but the MKII and 7d both perform so well that it is tough to be significantly better than that.
as for the crop factor, the 1.3 factor of the MKIV is right in between that of the MKII (full frame, 1.0) and the 7d (1.6). while it doesn’t sound like much, when you see them side by side you realize just how much of a difference that actually translates into. i am of the mind that a crop factor always has it ups and downs. as good as it is to get wider when you have a full frame sensor, getting in tighter is also great in many situations. as you get longer lenses, they are generally slower and heavier as well, so keeping small fast primes that get in super tight is quite the tool to have. the 1.3 crop factor of the MKIV feels like a great balance between the MKII and the 7d. i think many who weren’t happy with the 1.6 of the 7d will feel much more comfortable with the MKIV.
so what camera would we choose? depending on what country your in, the prices will vary, but here we are looking at about $2500 for the MKII, $1600 for the 7d, and $4900 for the MKIV.
is the MKIV twice as good as the MKII? currently, with no 24P on the MKII my answer would be absolutely yes. if and when the 24P firmware update happens, we would need to see if the rolling shutter was corrected (or potentially even worsened with a slower frame rate).
is the MKIV over three times as good as a 7d? for me, the answer would again be yes, but for many it may not be so straightforward. the form factor, the crop factor, as well as the weather resistance would all lead this to be my main camera (not to mention all of the awesome photo features). if i were a smaller studio starting out, i would probably look to the 7d first, as that camera offers an unbelievable value. a perfrect combination for many will likely be a MKIV as the workhorse with the MKII or the 7d rounding out the team as B,C, and D cameras.
we should, of course, never lose sight of the fact that this is just gear after all and being such, should always come secondary to our vision and approach. i hope we demonstrated with our JC + Esther film that it doesn’t have to take a ton of gear, cameras, or lenses – but simply the right gear, with the right understanding and vision.
thanks again to mark for putting this together. we have something else shot with the MKIV that we are hoping to debut in the coming weeks. amina and justin are also planning a follow up with some images to give you their take on the MKIV which, from what i here, will quickly become our main photo camera. any questions about the MKIV, please feel free to comment and we will do our best to keep up.
P.
Very good test.
Very beautifull model/.
Thanks!
:-)
I would like to use this side by side in a class, any chance you can email me a copy.
Thanks,
Jared
Nice moves btw! I have the 7d and it’s great. I’ve shot a number of things alongside 5ds with it. I think there’s a slight difference in aspect to them – maybe the difference you used to see between S16mm and 35mm in film. There seems to be a little more info and detail in the 5d image but not so much. I actually really like the 7d look and the 2 cameras work well together, but if you want to combine the 2 perfectly you have to know how and when to use each one. Frame rates are a huuuuge bonus on 7d imho. The holygrail like firmware update for the 5d must have problems, otherwise it would have been out a while back, surely. How long before someone creates a dedicated cam-corder with one of these sensors, a Canon mount and some standard film/video lenses to go on there as well as the stills ones. If it was less than 10k it would change the game forever gain, just like the 5d 18 months ago…
this review saved me! Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to do this comparison.
RT’ing you guys
Thanks for the demo. I have a quick question for you guys. I have a 7D and I am looking into getting a Glide-cam 2000 HD. What lens would you recommend buying to create great moving shots with a wide angle? As you know its cropped so I was thinking 10-22? I would really appreciate your help. Thank you so much. Love your guys work.
Hey, now im am gonna try to bring something to the table…
On my to Thailand i read in the swedish “filter” magazine, about uncompressed HD from the HDMI with an adapter (7d).
I guess HDMI out (7d) to HDMI in (adapter) conversion HD-SDI out from the adapter.
Does all the 3 rivals have the same opportunity for uncompressed HD thru the HMDI out?
Best regards/Ricky Gevert
[...] via stillmotionblog.com [...]
Hey,
thanks for the video,
but now I am confused as ever. I have a 40D, and I was thinking about getting a 7D, now everyone says to get a 5Dmkll. I will be using mostly for photography, the filming will be a bonus.
What is your recommendation?
Hi Patrick, the quality from each shoot isn’t too much different… the different is only on the croping isn’t it? I bought 7D already, I like the video esp. with the NTSC and PAL system… but well once again, if you compare it’s long-record, which one is the best? Btw How do you manage the AUDIO on those cam? do you just believe what canon does with the audio or you have another equipment such as clip-on/shotgun attached on your camera? btw living in tropic island is one of the disadvantage for Canon. The sensor is so fast to be burned out :) do you ever have the same problem patrick?
Thank you for taking the time comparing the 3 cams. Glad I purchased the 7D.
definatly want to go for a 1d mark iv soon. hope its available soon.
forget the comparisons, teach us those dance moves!!!
Good review! I’m looking at getting the 7D.
thanks for sharing. sorry, this is not the same topics, but i need your suggestion.
now, i have more question. i have mk2, 7d, sennheiser ew100 and tascam dr 100 like you recomended. i have the problem with audio recording. i put sennheiser into dr 100, and put the headphone out of dr100 into audio input of mk2 or 7d. i have problem with syncronize the audio from dr 100, mk2 & 7d. which fps should i choose? my way now is if there are clip showing people talking, i use the camera sound (which pluged with tascam), if there arent, i use tascam sound. the problem is if i pluged dr 100 with mk2 in church & 7d in reception, in my fcp i use 3 diferent audio source, dr 100. mk2 & 7d, which mean i should choose which ones should i rendered. can you help me please.. thxs
[...] stillmotionblog.com we should, of course, never lose sight of the fact that this is just gear after all and being [...]
Hey Guys, great review, I was wondering, about the form factor of the markiV, I have the 7d and considered getting a vert grip cause I had a rebel with one and loved shooting photos with it, but when I tried to shoot video handheld I found the grip to be obtrusive and forced my hand into an unnatural position for manually focusing while shooting. was this not a problem with the IV?
cheers,
tim
MKIV thought that is quite good
Thank you for the Comparisons. I’ve been behind, ’cause I thought StillMotion was still using the Canon XH-A1’s. I’ve been in preparations to buy an adaptor attachment for my A1 but am considering scrapping that whole idea & getting either the 7D or 5DMrkII instead ( I want that depth of field video PLUS awesome stills ). Would you agree? Thank you,
we use 5d for B camera because we live in pal land. The 5d gave us every thing we need the picture is perfect he lens perspective is awesome.
Hi Patrick..
You say you use the sennheiser ME66/K6 or the rode videomic for audio.
Do you ever plug those straight into the camera or always record to an external device such as H2N?
I’m asking specifically for the audio captured during tight detail shots at the houses.. (paper ruffling, opening presents, footsteps,)
You have very crisp audio during those detail shots and I’m just curious about the audio setup in those situations.
It sounds like you have a sound guy with a mic on a boom pole getting in close with your shot or something like that :) In generald do you ever have someone hold mics on a boom pole? Or are the mics always mounted on your cinevate cage possibly?
By the way I just bought that cage – Very nice!
-Frankie
[...] effect and high-iso noise. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions from the video and accompanying post here but I will mention that 7D also has a weather-resistant body and gaskets similar to the mrkIV as [...]
jess, you are awesome! loved the moves. :-) i don’t know how you didn’t crack up the whole time.
the thermometer actually came up on a 7d 3-4 times during a ceremony last saturday. inside a church in LA in december so it wasn’t all that hot. I just turn it off for 10 secs and it seems to be just fine so not a huge issue for us.
ya, i sometimes wonder if they put the overheating int here just so the camera isn’t so insanely good at the price point. they need something to hold it back – though i’ve never had mine go at me on a shoot, so it seems like you must need a pretty hot climate.
P.
for shoulder rigs, we use cinevate’s. there are some different config options – we prefer the straight shoulder pad versus the offset one, we use the setup with a cage and a couple handles. the cage acts to add weight and give you more handles. for mics, we often use the sennheiser ME66/K6 of the rode videomic. the sennheiser is pricey but the rode falls apart pretty easy.
P.
for the final output, it makes no difference at all. the transcode is more about the usability in post as you assemble your fine cut. if you want to color grade your owrk and make sure the shots are lined up perfectly then a less compressed format will play back much smoother, but you can rough cut and assemble the native files just fine on a new mac book pro.
P.
Kay Patrick.. that’s not fair! why is it that you post a comparison video, expect us to find a difference, but put someone as awesome as Jessica to be sooo damned distracting.. c’mon!
if i was still shooting photo, then i’d definitely consider getting the 1D for its upgraded capabilities. I always felt the 5D was a bit lacking compared to our old Nikon cameras and even next to the 7D. For video, we are loving the 7D for its 1.6 crop.
Mark & Jess, thanks for putting this together!
Living in a tropical country with blazing hot weather the entire year, my 7D get overheats too often. Yes, even indoors at times. But I am loving the 7D!
Hi P.
I currently shoot with the 5DMII and was wondering what shoulder rig you guys use and what is your preferred external mic? I am looking for a good shoulder rig and also a mobile track for the body. Thanks in advance.
-Chris Chen
NYC Still Motion Fan
Thanks for sharing SM Team. Looking to pick up a 7D in the next few weeks. Jessica, loved the robot dance :)
The data rate for encoding is higher on the 7D than the 5Dmkii and should theoretically give you more latitude in post. Check your file sizes.
60p is a big deal as well.
I also still see no real significant difference in either of these cameras in video mode. The 7D other than the crop factor(which I highly prefer for video to full 35mm)is in some ways arguably a better camera than the 5DmkII for stills. The whole “Full Frame” is marketing garbage. They both have there uses.
The 7D occupy s a very strange place in canons lineup.
How important is it to transcode the footage through ProRez like you did in these videos? Is it especially important for Slo-Mo?
jess + robot // my morning entertainment. loved it :)
james,
i mentioned in the blog post itself about full frame and our thoughts on the MKII firmware upgrade.
the MKII spot was composed for that piece by amy seeley. send me an email if your interested in licensing it.
P.
Hi there team still motion :)
Just wondering as a still guy I see ‘full frame’ as the holy grail, it seems that you guys dont really mind about the crop on the 7D/MKIV. does the crop not sort of takeaway the 135 look and view?
Also once the 24p firmware is released for the MKII, do you see the 5D will be on equal terms with the 7D?
finally just wondering what music was used in the
‘5d MKII // final’ commercial?
thanks
James
One of the many stillmotion fans
rick,
we shoot all primes, for the most part, until you get more telephoto in which we pull in the 70-200 f2.8 IS. if you want to shoot handheld, then IS is good, but beware of the noise it creates and how that will hurt your audio. the 24-105 f4 IS is a great carry around lens on the 7d or 5d. for primes, we like the 24 f1.4, 50 f1.2, and 135 on the 5d. on the 7d that would be the 14mm f2.8 rectilinear, 35 f1.4, and the 85 f1.2.
P.
Mark-
Wondering how lens choices would effect your selection of 5DMkII vs 7D (video being the primary use, with occasional stills, 1D out of my price range)? And are you using any image stabilized zooms or all primes? Use is primarily handheld, doc-style video and the flexibility of something like the Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS lens looks really appealing. Curious as to your thoughts on this. Thx.
Rick
Thank you for spending the time in writing this up. It was very timely as I am about to drop some g’s in the next few weeks on equipment.
Thanks again, you guys are great!
Well I saw a smirk while you did your robot… so I guess that means I’m laughing WITH you Jess =)
oh come on now, your a natural for the camera. you’ve been waiting for the moment to show off your robot.
P.
john – i haven’t done too much extensive grading. the other piece we are working on was shot with the MKIV, trancoded to pro-rez, and then processed in color. the footage sure held up well to the grading, but it was also a lower iso and well lit.
my guess, and it is just that, is that the grading aspect would be quite similar as the data rate of encoding seems to be the same, so the files are equally compressed. i haven’t heard anything about increased DR, but i will have to check that out as it would help if it’s there. being a smaller sensor than the MKII, it would be hard to increase the DR at the same time, but who knows. let me look into it.
P.
haha…jess.
great stuff. i still like the mkII for some reason, but that mkIV looked darn good in low light. nice job mark.
merry christmas!
Did you notice any advantage when grading clips out of the 1d vs the mk2? would seem that you might have more flexiblity with dynamic range on the 1d.
loved the dance btw :)
wow. embarrassing, but always happy to make people laugh…
(usually with me, not at me)
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Wow, coming from someone who knows diddly-squat about cameras other than pointing and shooting… I still don’t get it! HAHA! Sorry, just got lost in all the technical jargon of “8x 7y 5000// zooooom focus thingie”. But Jess was entertaining none-the-less!!! Mmmm… xmas cookies…
jon
don’t forget your talking about the image in a lower resolution web video. you can’t feel the form factor, you can experience the weather resistance, and you aren’t shooting photos – which is where this cam blasts the other hands down. the low light difference is certainly more pronounced at a higher iso and resolution, but still not as significant as i would have guessed from things i heard. based on image quality at a lower resolution and for video along, i think you have a point, but this cam is much more than image quality – which i feel the MKII and 7d have already excelled at and even a marginal increase in this cam is great to me.
P.
Maybe I am a fool, but i see absolutely nothing here to justify spending an additional 3,000 for a Canon 1d MKIV,for my personal needs. However, I sincerely appreciate you guys posting all 3 cameras footage side by side.Thank You very much for the time and effort.
we are all 7d for video now – we have about six of them. for photo, we are still mostly 5dMK1 and well they love the MKII and 7d, they were waiting for everything that would come with the MKIV and we will be getting a bunch of those for photo (and some for cinema too).
P.
hey kaipo,
great to hear from you.
the MKII had harsher contrast and richer saturation out of the box. even when you create a picture profile and turn the contrast down, it still seems much punchier than the 7d stock. i find that in post though, that means you have more latitude with the 7d. if you have a super crushed MKII image shot in low light you don’t have many options in post.
P.
we actually shoot in the ‘arctic circle’ only about half of the time, the rest we are often in much warmer places. i have seen our 7d overheat in blazing hot, texas-like, sun when shooting for extended periods BUT i just watch for the thermometer to pop up and shut it off briefly when it does, and that has done the trick. practically speaking, it hasn’t be much of an issue for us.
i would imagine that the MKIV, being a pro series camera, would be much more tolerant of the heat as well.
P.
she practiced long and hard on those.
P.
nice moves ;)
A nice summary Patrick.
Here in Aus we are considering getting another 5D [despite the lack of native frame rates for our broadcast standard] because our 7Ds keep overheating. We have been through 3 of them from our Canon rep – all behaved exactly the same.
The 5D never failed us in this regard and to be able to film a longer ceremony or the toasts it’s essential that we have cameras that won’t let us down. How have you found the 7D in this regard?
Perhaps it’s harder to overheat them up there in the arctic circle. :)
Cool work, Mark. (also hilarious choreography Jess).
Maybe it’s my eyes, but I can’t see all that much difference at the end of the day between the three. I think I’m good with my 7D and if I had to get another cam, I’d get another 7D. Although I did have a chance to shoot a wedding with James last week (he used a 5Dm2) and in side-by-side comparisons, I thought the 5Dm2 had deeper blacks overall. Then again, I’m still a novice, so just my 2 cents. :)
Hey Stillmotion…great info…thanks for sharing…just to clarify you guys still use your Mark II or are you all 7D now for video…secondly if you were doing both video and photo would you prefer the 5D over the 7D?
Sweet dance moves Jess! :) Nice work with the video Mark, I enjoyed the comparison. There will definitely be no 1Dmk4 anytime soon in my future, I’d like to get a couple more 7Ds first.
[...] had the great idea to make a side by side video comparison with the 5D and 7D. Read their comments here and check out the [...]
awesome review!